Welcome to part four of "Equipped," a biweekly interview series picking the brains of your favorite showrunners, show creators, EPs, and all-around legends. In part one, we took a dive into the world of comedy writer-producer Dan O'Shannon, and in part two we kicked it with This Close's Joshua Feldman, and in part three we (virtually) hung out with The Big Loop podcaster Paul Bae.

This week, we're chatting with:

M. Dickson
Favorite Shows You’ve Worked On: Superstore, Disenchantment
Years in the WGA: 8

You’ve written for some amazing shows, both live-action and animated. How did you make the transition from live-action to animated?

I sort of fell backward into animation. It wasn’t really on my radar for any other reason than that it hadn’t really occurred to me. But after working on a few live-action shows, I had the opportunity to do Disenchantment, and the only information I even had to start was that my agent called and said, “Matt Groening is doing a show for Netflix do you want to meet for it?” and if you’re going to do a show in animation, you might as well go do it with Matt Groening. So all of a sudden I was very interested in doing animation.

Disenchantment was trial by fire. I was working with a writing partner and I think we were the only people in the room who hadn’t done animation before. It was really a credit to Matt and Josh Weinstein, the showrunners, that they were like, 'if you want to learn how to do something, we’ll let you learn how to do it' so I was able to direct a lot of the records and be part of editing the radio plays and animatics pretty early on.

What are the key differences when breaking story?

I feel very grateful that people think there’s some secret sauce in showrunning animation because that has been very helpful to me, but the truth is, I don’t think there’s a whole lot of difference. I think a writer’s a writer. If you can write live-action you can write animation.

That said, in live-action if an actor improvises something and it’s great, you keep it and that’s it. If you’re doing animation and an actor improvises and it’s great, the show conforms to fit that. You have to go back into the animation to make it work. And with Disenchantment, the cast had a lot of amazing actors who were also writers in their own right. They were always coming up with great stuff, so we’d have to go back in to retool some stuff to allow for those moments.

I really think of myself as a joke writer first. So I think what can get frustrating for me sometimes if I’m on an animated project too long is, it’s such a grind, you’re watching the same thing in storyboard as you are a radio play as you are animatic. No joke is that funny the 28^th time you’ve heard it. So my hands started to feel a little more tied in animation versus live action.

Let’s get into some quick qs – Do you have a favorite fiction book?

I really love short story collections. I’m a big Ray Bradbury fan. I’m always amazed by writers that can do the most with the least amount of words. Though for straight narrative, probably something by Stephen King like It or The Shining, so ya know, the opposite of brevity.

Favorite writing snack?

I never eat more in my life than when I’m working on a script. And I don’t know if that’s not just procrastination. Just the constant getting up to get things because that gives me a break. I must consume entire cases of dried mango from Trader Joe’s with every act.

Favorite writing utensils?

I’m a sucker for a whiteboard. Zoom rooms are kind of my nightmare because I need to be tangibly doing something, tangibly writing, erasing, etc.

Favorite writing location?

I wish I was one of those people that could write in a coffee shop or anywhere outside of my home but I’m so easily distracted. I need to be in my office at home, or in an office writing. And for some reason, I will usually end up sitting on the floor. I have a very nice desk, I have a plethora of tables, but if I’m writing I will absolutely end up sitting on the floor with my laptop. Which is absolutely worse for me the older I get.

So I know the WGA has great insurance, does it cover good physical therapy for sitting on the floor for extended periods of time?

It’s gonna have to because I think I have one more year before my back is like I’m not doing this anymore.

You’re procrastinating on YouTube…what are you watching?

This is so weird but if I’m being honest, I find myself watching old Kennedy Center Honors. There’s something really charming about it. They stick this revered person up in the balcony and all these people come to perform their work for them. But they don’t tell the person in the balcony who is involved.

So I’m always so charmed by watching the person in the balcony respond to who’s come out for them. And it’s nice, bite-sized segments, like watching someone’s memorial and they’re there. So the Kennedy Center Honors, and then I’ll watch a lot of Broadway bootlegs, too. 

If you had to do a cross-country road trip with a fictional character that you've written for before, who would you pick and why?

I’ve got a soft spot for Elfo from Disenchantment.

What are you reading/watching right now?

I just finished Will Smith’s new memoir that I really enjoyed. And watching… I’m behind on everything. I’m enjoying Ghosts on CBS. Yellowjackets on Showtime. Only Murders in the Building on Hulu. I feel like I’ve missed a lot of great stuff because I have trouble watching scripted things while I’m actively developing.

What can’t you live without?

I’m a music junkie. The only time of day I’m not listening to music is when I’m writing, like if I’m writing dialogue I can’t, but otherwise, it’s constantly going. My AirPods are attached to my head. I think the amount of emotion or story that can be communicated in three and a half minutes is impressive.

What’s your go-to process when you need to generate a new pilot or a new episode of a show you’re working on?

I think in these broad ideas, but I don’t think I can start digging into a piece until I can visualize a scene. The scene I come to first could be the start of the pilot, or the middle, or end, but everything is hypothetical until I can dial it into one scene and then I build out from there.

When did you first feel like a writer?

I’ve always kind of obnoxiously been a writer.

Oh nice, just lean into that, haha.

The story that’s become folklore in my family, and it’s only charming because I found success, if I hadn’t, it’d be very sad. But do you remember Talk Boys? The toy from Home Alone 2, the tape recorder? I used to play Barbies and record it on the Talk Boy and then go back and listen to it. Essentially I was editing dialogue. And then I would go back and redo the scene. Which seems so obnoxious now. I remember we had a typewriter too when I was a kid. I would tell my dad stories and he would type them. I think there were times I entertained other careers, but life was like, nope, you’re a writer. Go be a writer.

What’s something you know now that you wish you knew when you first entered a writer’s room?

I think there’s a lot of mystery around how things work in writers' rooms. This belief that you get in there and everyone else knows exactly what they’re doing. And I think the reality is we’re all guessing. This entire business is based on guessing. At every step of the way. You’re pitching a show, and a studio is guessing that a network might buy it. And a network is guessing that an audience might watch it. If everyone knew what they were doing all the time, every show would be a hit show and that’s not how it works.

As for being in the room, my advice would be, remember you got hired for a reason. I think being able to write a draft is only a small part of what your responsibility is in a room. The more you can remember that everyone is taking their best guess at something the more empowered you can feel to take your best guess. Whether that’s a joke or a scene fix.

What’s your go-to when you get bad news?

I have gotten very efficient about it, depending on how bad the news is. I really try to limit myself. I’ll give myself 30 minutes, and then I just try to move on to the next thing. That may sound like I’ve figured it out. I haven’t. But I think this is why one of my biggest pieces of advice to new writers is to have more than one thing going on.

For me, it’s very helpful mentally if I get bad news on a project to be able to switch gears and jump into something else. I think the worst thing you can do is dwell. This business is about 99% bad news, that’s just the nature of it. You can’t let it take you down every time. I always tell writers you have to want it more than it sucks because it’s gonna suck sometimes. Move on. Get to the next thing.

It’s like the Hulk but with handling disappointment. “That’s my secret, I’m always getting disappointing news.”

Yeah, and it’s easy to get accustomed to success too. You need to celebrate the wins and the steps along the way. Don’t brush them aside. I really hate when people say, “Oh, don’t get your hopes up.” I think that’s the worst advice in this business. If you’re not getting your hopes up, then how are you doing this?

So, yeah for the bad news I’ve gotten efficient. I hear it, and if there’s an opportunity to learn from it, I try, and then I’ll move on to the next thing that might bring me bad news.

Can you tell me about someone or an experience who was pivotal in your journey from being an amateur to a professional writer?

I’ve been incredibly fortunate to work with a lot of great writers and showrunners and people through the pitch process. There’s this guy that comes to mind, Jeff Kleeman who at the time was running Ellen DeGeneres’ Very Good Productions, I think he still is. We had a general with him that escalated into a pitch and a week later he was reading a script. I heard from him really soon after and he took the time to call me and really walk through his reaction to the project and to the pitch. This was really early on in my career so I was hearing things from a producer’s perspective I hadn’t heard before. He shared his side of things and what boxes he needed checked for what he was looking for. It gave me a really in-depth point of view of the other side of the table. And that was incredibly helpful going forward. I don’t know if he had a spare 20 minutes that day or what, but it’s always been appreciated.

What does paying it forward look like for you?

I don’t think writers benefit from this business being mysterious. I’ve been very fortunate to have people I could ask questions to or people who would read my scripts, so I try to be a resource for other people.

And for a while on Twitter you were posting and offering to read scripts too.

That was a fun pandemic thing, but everyone benefits from more great writers and more great scripts. There’s no competitive lens to it. When I’m going to go staff a room, the more great writers I’m familiar with, the better. We all benefit by sharing resources and lifting one another up.

Do you have a life motto of any kind? Or if you had to put something on a t-shirt, what would it say? 

My friend’s mom says “Don’t have stupid dreams.” It sounds terrible but she meant it as in, you can DO these things you dream of. The bad example is, don’t sit there and say “I wish I had pizza.” Well okay, pick up the phone and order a pizza. I like the simplicity of it.

Like if you’re dreaming about something make sure it’s something that requires dreaming. As opposed to something you can just take an actionable step toward, just do it. 

It sounds silly, but you see it a lot in the creative field. There are a lot of talented people who have been conditioned to wait to go through the gatekeeper system, and I just don’t think that’s real. I think if they put that same amount of energy into actionable steps they’d probably be a lot further.